Mitch Clingo
Hi everybody, this is our second podcast of our career series where we’re chatting about career topics. My name is Mitch Clingo. I’m a Career Education Coordinator from the Career and Experiential Learning department. I’m with two different Career Ambassadors this time: Alex Duarosan and Abdul Jaiyeola.
We’re going to talk about networking today, which is one of those love hate topics that a lot of us have mixed feelings about. So I’m going to pass it over to you guys right away. Can you introduce yourselves and tell me a bit about your relationship with networking? Is it something that kinda comes naturally to you or is it something that you had to work at? Alex, did you wanna go first?
Alex Duarosan
Sure, I guess I’ll start with my journey with networking. It kind of all started in my first year of university. I came from a private school, a private high school and there’s very small classes, so coming to a big university like Thompson Rivers University is kind of hard at first.
What kind of helped me was exposing myself to new experiences. Obviously going to university is a new experience itself, but I kind of started to get involved with cheerleading. Now I’m involved with co-op, different peer mentor opportunities and student ambassador opportunities and that kind of all gave me… I know we talked a lot about in one of our meetings, building tolerance to things… so that kind of gave me the experience to build tolerance to networking and just being social in general.
So I think that’s kind of how it all started for me and it’s going okay so far. I’m still pretty introverted as is. But yeah, the progress has been made. I’ve made a lot of connections throughout my whole university experience.
Mitch Clingo
Awesome. What about you Abdul?
Abdul Jaiyeola
For me, networking has been an interesting experience, ’cause it’s kind of just been my entire life. My youngest years were here in Canada, but then with my dad moving around for oil and gas a lot, we were traveling to Europe, and then Dubai, and then coming back. So it kind of brought me out of my shell because I was a really shy kid. But then that made me have to realize that making connections with people doesn’t necessarily have to be the scariest thing in the world, and you can always find ways to relate to people.
And I think that really helped me with deciding, like, to move away for university and having that experience to do it on my own. And that really helped me with getting into clubs, and interacting with my peers, and just understanding what type of connections I did want to make. So it’s been… you definitely learn! You’ve never learned it all and you’re always learning every day, which I think is really cool. That you can never learn everything there is to know about networking.
Mitch Clingo
Yeah yeah, networking is just people skills and getting to know people.
Abdul Jaiyeola
Exactly.
Mitch Clingo
People are like endlessly fascinating and confusing.
Abdul Jaiyeola
(Laughing) Complicated, yep.
Mitch Clingo
Yeah, right? So it sounds like, uh, between the two of you part of it comes naturally, but at the same time you recognize that it’s something that you’ve had to work at. And you… you talked about networking in the context of kind of just meeting people. I think when we think about networking it’s… it’s always about professional context. It’s about trying to make, well, in our department context anyways, it’s about trying to make opportunities for ourselves. But it sounds like you guys recognize that it’s just about how you kind of get along and get to know people.
Abdul Jaiyeola
Absolutely. For example, a friend of mine, we started an online business. And a couple of years ago I’d met a friend… I met somebody while I was on S-Trip after I graduated, and they were just somebody who loved art and it was kind of something that was their passion. So when we started this business, we were looking for somebody to make our logo. And lo and behold, like when I posted about it, they were one of the people that replied, and then they helped us design this logo and we love it.
And it was kind of like a collab on that front, but it’s not something that we had planned, right? It’s not something like, hey, I’m gonna need you to make something for me in the future, right? It was just so happened that that’s what happened. We got along just by being friends, just by having a regular conversation, seeing what each other were interested in, and then it just so happened that later in the future you end up collaborating because you have interests in common. So it’s really cool.
Alex Duarosan
Yeah, I think for me actually, now that you bring it up, networking came for me mostly from finding opportunities, especially on campus. Like through co-op, through this Career Ambassador role, my new role with TRU World, and the Safety Department. I think that I’ve met a lot of people just from wanting to try new experiences and different roles throughout the university. So yeah, that’s kind of how I began networking as well.
Mitch Clingo
OK, I like the two outcomes actually, because they’re kind of opposite. Abdul, you met friends that led to opportunities. Alex, you created opportunities that led to friends.
Alex Duarosan
Exactly.
Mitch Clingo
There’s also that idea, and I hear a little bit of this. The difference between when we are looking for work where we try to make networking intentional, right? I want to meet these people and I want to gain this skill. Whereas there’s also just happenstance networking of throw yourself out into the world and see what comes to find you. Do you guys have any stories about either of those things? Either kind of the happenstance side, or the intentional piece?
Abdul Jaiyeola
For me, actually, this was December 2018. I was working ’cause I come home for Christmas break, and I just happened to get a job at the mall Chinook Mall here in Calgary and it was at Eddie Bauer. And I was just working over the Christmas break and this like 50… I’d say like just around 50-year-old man came in one day and he was looking for some stuff. And we just got to chatting and he was actually a retired engineer who was an entrepreneur now. And he was just like I love your energy! I love the way you conduct yourself blah blah blah blah blah. Would you like to go for coffee?
And we just got to talking and we’ve had like coffees. We still have phone calls and he’s just kind of like a little bit of like a mentor to me. And he kind of just like shows me a lot of things and explains a lot of things. And it wasn’t obviously something I was expecting like I’m going to work today to find somebody who is gonna change my life. So it just was a happenstance. And just being who I am and just kind of always putting myself out there. Kind of brought that to me, so yeah, that was pretty cool.
Mitch Clingo
Right, and this is coincidental, because I don’t think you mentioned at the start what your program is, but you’re taking engineering.
Abdul Jaiyeola
Yes I am. (Laughs)
Mitch Clingo
Alex, what about you?
Alex Duarosan
A lot of it is actually happenstance. I kind of like to view networking as like a tree. You’re kind of the trunk and all the connections you make along the way are sort of the branches, and I think that it’s all just sort of happened for me. Like I’ve made a lot of connections with cheerleading. My coach actually kind of linked me with a couple of City of Kamloops people, ’cause she works for the City of Kamloops as well so.
Or even through my Career Ambassador role. I didn’t actually think initially to fully go in with co-op, but then I sort of got in touch with the Kamloops Arts Council and that sort of reignited my flame for… my passion for arts. And I actually submitted some artwork for their small works program that’s happening right now. So just little things here and there all together, kind of, just happened for me and have led me to all the wonderful opportunities that I’ve had to this day. So yeah.
Mitch Clingo
Nice and the same thing has happened to me. I think I told you guys this story, but I’m here at TRU because of one of those happenstance moments as well. I was at a workshop or a conference on the labor market… on labor market information as part of… as a representative from Work BC When I used to work there. And somebody at lunch during the workshop stood up and said, “Hey, TRU is hiring a new coordinator. If anybody meets the education requirements and wants different job, come talk to me!” And that was now retired co-op coordinator Marion Oke. Um… but I was the only one who went up and chatted with her for that day. And it led me to this job here.
And another experience I’ve had just recently was only a couple of weeks ago, which was very surprising. I took a volunteering role, coordinating some counsellor cafes for… for local counsellors and after facilitating the first one, a bunch of offers rolled in and they’re like, hey, if you need workspace or if you wanna maybe start exploring our practice, then let’s talk. Very, very unexpected. Part of that happenstance aspect.
So it sounds for you, for both of you, that you don’t really force your networking, it just kind of settled in for you as part of kind of who you are and the connections you’ve made. What would you say to students who feel like networking is kind of forced or manufactured?
Alex Duarosan
I think on some level because of the formality of it all, like networking can be seen seemingly forced. This is because when you first meet employers, professors, or anyone that holds a position of authority, there’s always going to be some sense of properness and politeness. And I think if you get the chance to get to know that person better and maybe you get to work with that person, you get to sort of get a more genuine connection out of that?
Mitch Clingo
So it’s… it’s just relying on the… the natural process of building relationships, not expecting that anything amazing is going to pop out right at the start. That relationships take time to develop, and opportunities come from… come later down the road.
Abdul Jaiyeola
Yeah, I agree. I agree with that because I definitely think you won’t find opportunities just sitting in your room. So like it takes you, putting yourself kind of in positions that maybe you don’t feel necessarily 100% comfortable in, but you find some interest there. So for me, I think a lot of my people skills, which has made networking so easy is I’ve always played on sports teams. I’ve always liked doing like hosting events. I always talked to pep rallies in high school. So I just kind of put myself in those positions and sometimes it wasn’t even that I wanted to do it, but people would nominate me, or they want me to kind of come along or partner with them. So then that would kind of force me to be like you know what, why not?
So and then as you kind of put yourself in those positions it starts to feel more natural because it’s just something that you’ve practiced, and then it kind of happens. So it definitely doesn’t happen overnight, and you just have to kind of put yourself in those positions to understand that if you want it to happen, you have to start somewhere and you will feel a little bit uncomfortable, but it definitely gets better.
Mitch Clingo
Yeah, totally. Building off that point though that you can’t meet anybody just sitting in the room. A lot of us are spending a lot of time sitting in our room. (laughs)
Abdul Jaiyeola
So, and that’s where, and that’s where it’s kind of interesting with the ways to interact these days. Because I guess it was a lot different even just when we were kids, we didn’t have social media to the extent that we do have it now. And all these different types of platforms to express ourselves. So I think for me it’s been an interesting transition because kind of figuring out how to keep my energy as high when I’m doing things and stuff.
Being at home has been very interesting because I’m the type of person who feeds off other peoples’ energy, who loves to interact with other people. So just finding ways has been really interesting, but the best thing for me is kind of just using those platforms that we do have. And when I’m in class, forcing myself to interact because that will kind of like has… I’ve seen that other people will interact off of that and kind of just putting myself in all these other positions, like example being career ambassador and stuff, and just wanting to be more in the community. So I think it… we can still find ways for sure.
Mitch Clingo
Okay. So we need to find those outlets for that energy and so you can do the social media and I know one of the great pieces of advice you gave us for connecting and connecting classes is having those side chats on like Snapchat or WhatsApp
Abdul Jaiyeola
Exactly.
Mitch Clingo
So that you can keep talking to people in class.
Abdul Jaiyeola
Yeah, we have ones on, uh. We have kind of like the more professional ones that we use on Microsoft Teams and Discord and we kind of just use those to discuss class, or to kind of put like little group times that we put into so when we don’t have class, we’d say, “Okay… 7:30 this evening we’re all going to come together to work on this”. Kind of help each other out with what we don’t understand.
And then we have other group chats where it’s just like throughout the day. I might send a picture of myself eating my first bowl of cereal. I’m like, oh I hate this class. So just kind of like balancing it out and finding ways to still be friendly and understand, like, we’re all human. We love that human interaction. That’s what makes us who we are. So we have to kind of balance it out and not be robots just because we sit behind the screen all day.
Mitch Clingo
Totally. Alex, how are you managing over networking and moving your energy while we’re spending so much time shut up inside?
Alex Duarosan
Well, I think for me I’m very lucky. I’m pretty… Because I’m a part of the sport as well I get to have that as a network. So I don’t feel as much as the need to be more social. But I think Abdul is right. Like networking doesn’t stop even in this virtual setting! Like you can use other platforms… social media platforms like Instagram, LinkedIn, Snapchat, all that. And just be more social in your classes as well. I think like you might be restricted to face to face contact, but you can still find ways to network by getting involved in some sense as well.
Mitch Clingo
Yeah, that’s like closer to these days. But yeah, that’s… that’s part of the skill point with the parts, I think and now the creativity where we have to kind of bridge those new connections. So one of the questions I have for you, you guys have both gone through the COOP 1000 course at this point. In the… in the Career and Experiential Learning Department we love informational interviews. We made you do the assignment in the COOP 1000 program, and we talk about them all the time. What do you think about info interviews? Are they as good as we think they are in terms of kind of networking and making new connections?
Abdul Jaiyeola
I would say yes because I feel like it’s a way to do something that, if it wasn’t necessarily present, that you wouldn’t have a way to showcase those type of things like there isn’t really an outlet to kind of put that out there. Especially for people who love the… for the Kamloops community and want to do something locally, and kind of have something like that. Or just meeting people who have similar interests and have a way for you to get involved or are looking for people to get involved with the skill set that you have. So I think, yeah, it definitely is really effective because it’s not something that would necessarily happen otherwise, so that makes it valuable.
Mitch Clingo
Yeah, for anybody listening who doesn’t know what I’m talking about, informational interviews are where you go out and interview somebody doing a job you’re interested in in an industry or in an industry that you might be interested in. And you talk to them, and you ask questions about their career path.
Abdul Jaiyeola
So for me, my first informational interview was actually this past winter semester, so it was right when COVID hit. So that made it a little harder to sit down and kind of have a conversation with them. But I did get on the phone with some professionals who work here in Calgary and they’re just… in the whole computer science industry and I’m in software engineering, so it’s kind of where I would like to be. And it was just interesting to see how they were transitioning to having people working at home. And it was really cool because of the field that I want to work in it was actually a lot easier to have people go home to do their stuff because you’re just come into the office to necessarily, like, work on your computer anyway. So the only thing that made it hard was kind of just seeing your colleagues every day and having those face-to-face meetings.
But otherwise, they said like the transition was actually quite smooth. It helped with a lot of overhead, of course, because they’re not paying for stuff in the buildings. But for me it also showed me that even despite this happening there isn’t going to be a shortage of need for people in the industry, which was really encouraging because I was kind of scared. And a lot of people obviously would be scared because a lot of jobs are being lost at this time because I did, unfortunately lose my co-op because of this. But that is kind of the reality of it. But it also just is good to know that they’re still hiring people that have graduated.
Mitch Clingo
So my last question here is, and we’ve touched on this already, but the personality differences between kind of like with introverts and extroverts. Do you think extroverts have an easier time networking?
Abdul Jaiyeola
Yes.
Mitch Clingo
And what do you do if you’re an introvert?
Abdul Jaiyeola
I mean, for me it was kind of forced. Like I just adapt… like I don’t know how to kind of describe it. ‘Cause before I left Canada for the first time I was – this was in 2009 – I was a really shy kid. 10 years old, didn’t really like talking to other people, wasn’t in a lot of clubs after school or anything. I was kind of just that one kid who just got all A’s and went home. Then kind of moving to Denmark was kind of like really big for me because, first of all I am African American, of course, so there’s not a lot of Black people in Denmark. So I was kind of like one of these only kid in the entire school of over like 2000 kids. There was I think one other family. And kind of just not speaking the language at first. So that kind of made me have to come out of my shell because at first I did kind of get bullied and being different was kind of really hard for me. So I tried to find a way to kind of fit in.
And my way to escape that was of course joining a soccer team. So like I said, it’s kind of hard I know for some people, but I think the best way to do it is kind of find something that you like to start it off with and that will kind of like propel you towards other things. ‘Cause playing on the soccer team was kind of my way to learn the language because I was kind of around kids who were speaking at 24/7. So within a year and a half I was fluent Danish and then that kind of helped me become more comfortable there and then become myself and then find out a lot about myself throughout the journey as well.
Mitch Clingo
When people talk about the introversion, extroversion difference, they forget that… they forget about social skills. And when I say that term, it’s social skills. Skills are something that you work on and develop, and they are different than the… our natural personality characteristics. No matter whether or not you’re an introvert or extrovert, whether you’re gravitated towards people or not, social skills are something that can always be worked on and developed. Alex what are your thoughts between the personality differences?
Alex Duarosan
I think that they probably both have challenges, but differently. So for me as more of an introvert I know I always get pretty nervous when I talk to new people. I always bring up the tolerance thing, but it… it is sort of like that. Eventually you get less and less nervous with the more experience you get talking to people or just even with interviews. You get better with time, and you get less nervous as they all come along. But yeah, those are some of the challenges. As an introvert, I like, think that I face mostly.
Mitch Clingo
Yeah, it’s… it’s interesting. And I’ve actually done a bunch of research in this field through… while I was in school and… and why that is. Why is it this one side gets more… more anxious around high stimulation situations where extroverts kind of really thrive in them. It’s because that personality characteristic is somewhat hardwired into our nervous system. Extroverts when they see that, when they get that high physical stimulation, it sets them into like the really… it’s what they… It’s that place where they like to be. Whereas introverts operate from a natural place of higher sense of stimulation. So too much or a lot of it can send them over that curve of performance in terms of it… so that it can be a little bit overwhelming sometimes. It’s just too much going on and then once it slows down then you feel good. So that’s why we… we introverts are put in that category as well… can get nervous in new situations and it takes us just a little bit longer to acclimate.
Alex Duarosan
Yeah, and I guess sometimes though people do perform better under pressure and sometimes I find that sometimes I don’t. But that’s another thing to think about as well. Is that pressure can bring on the best in you… so!
Abdul Jaiyeola
Absolutely, and I think another thing is kind of what situation it is. ‘Cause if it is something that you’re comfortable with, then maybe you would thrive there. But then when you get to kind of a situation where you’re not as comfortable with but the people you’re around wouldn’t know that or something they’re like “oh look, he’s kind of a little more shy or blah blah blah blah”. But everybody is kind of different and you might not necessarily… ’cause some people thrive in all situations, but some can necessarily only thrive in like… an environment that they feel comfortable in and then you would see them really thrive.
And then some people just don’t like the kind of the spotlight or the pressure of those high-level situations, which is totally understandable because stress is annoying. Like who in the end of the day likes it. So I kind of understand where that comes from. For me, I think it was just built around for me like sports is my entire life. So kind of just going to championship games and feeling that pressure and kind of understanding how to hone my senses was kind of like huge for me in transitioning into how to use that in my everyday life. So it was kind of just finding that balance.
Mitch Clingo
Totally. That goes back to Alex’s point of tolerance. And the more you are in pressure point situations, the more tolerance you build to it and more resilience you get from it. So one of the things I’ve noticed about introverts is that they… they really don’t like those surface level conversations. Small talk conversations that kind of talking about the weather, or sports, or their day. Those things can seem kind of meaningless, and so they just don’t attach to those conversations. So it’s important to recognize the strengths of that introvert quality of like… depth is where you really connect to people and leverage that strength of having real conversations. If you’re nervous about networking because you don’t like the small talk, skip that stuff, and go right to what’s important and follow your curiosity.
Abdul Jaiyeola
Yeah, I think that’s very true, because one thing that I would say about introverts that I think I’ve noticed is they know how to apply their energy very well. So, like you said, with those surface level conversations, they’re kind of like “oh yeah, okay. We’re not going to remember this in 10 minutes, so I’m just kind of gonna let it go through” and they’re not going to necessarily engage as much, but when they feel like they’re being engaged and it’s something that is worthwhile, I feel like that is where you can see them really express themselves to the fullest. And if it’s something that they’re interested in, then you can see that genuine passion and then that becomes where they can really thrive. So I think that’s really interesting because I have a lot of friends like that, and even my sister. For example, we’re pretty much opposites like I’m the first born and then she’s second. I think it’s because. I was just always there, kind of like yeah, that’s my sister and so she kind of just likes to do her own thing. But when she talks about something she absolutely loves, she’s more stir crazy than me! So.
Mitch Clingo
I like that perspective of uh… of yeah… saving energy for what’s meaningful. All right, so we’re about to wrap up! Any kind of last comments or points you’d like to tell anybody listening about kind of tips or tricks, or… or thoughts or comments on kind of networking. Maybe especially now when it seems harder than ever.
Abdul Jaiyeola
I would say for a lot of people who are feeling like they want to make a lot of connections right now. You don’t have to necessarily make new connections ’cause I know a lot of people have a lot of friends they would say. Or acquaintances and people that they have met in their lives, and they haven’t talked to in a really long time. But you know you used to… or you have a lot in common or you used to have a lot in common. And it’d just be nice to reconnect. So I think that would be a good place for a lot of people to start. Is kind of like relationships that have already been formed, but maybe aren’t being used? I don’t know… I don’t want to call it used right now, but people who aren’t talking to each other would be a place to start. And kind of use that to get yourself out there again and then from there you can kind of figure out where you would wanna go.
Mitch Clingo
And so reconnect with some of those people, or some of those relationships that have maybe weakened over time or kind of fell by the wayside. You know, with our busy lives.
Abdul Jaiyeola
Exactly.
Mitch Clingo
Alex, what about you?
Alex Duarosan
I always say this, but I like to give the advice to still be open to new experiences. I think it’ll just lead you to a whole new world that you haven’t seen before, and you might find out new passions. You might find out things you hate, but at least then you’ll know, especially in terms of a career. Like I did a marketing and communications co-op this past summer. It was at the desk. So I found out that I cannot do the desk for seven hours a day, five days a week. So now I’m looking into career path options that are more on the move. But I also, in terms of networking, I’d recommend if you’re kind of nervous like me to start networking, just remember that every relationship that you’ve ever had up until now has sort of started with a friendly greeting of a hello or something.
Abdul Jaiyeola
Baby steps.
Alex Duarosan
Yep.
Mitch Clingo
Alright, well we’ll wrap it up here. Thank you everybody for listening and tune in next time. Take care.